Curse

Ferret · Sep 06, 2007, 02:35 PM // 14:35

/Signed...especially as the monster AI has been so improved.

We need smarter heroes and henchies now.

Ferret · Sep 06, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

/Signed...especially as the monster AI has been so improved.

We need smarter heroes and henchies now.

Clord · Sep 06, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

/Signet

See my previous post in topic.

Perfect_Clarity · Sep 06, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Just yesterday I remember Koss running back and forth whie enemies were attacking him...I've had my Caster hench's also have an urge to run really close to the enemies even though they have no melee attacks. And why would my Ele cast meteor shower on a simple spirit with no other enemies around it? They need to make some spells have more conditions met before being atuomatically cast. I've noticed a lot of things half-assed in Guild Wars, this is just one of the hundreds, and thats why I'm hoping for another blizzard game to come out, particularly SC2.

GaladrielMoloch · Sep 06, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Not-signed.

No notice in change if any of the NPC AI, only AI that has changed is monster AI. The NPC AI doesn't think like us, you actually have to control it and the first step of that is the build.

Heroes do not use Elites as much as they should etc, you need to tailor for this in your builds. A very difficult and timed build doesn't work on heroes for a reason. The game has been designed so you are able to complete it with hero/hench, but if you got all human players or mostly human players, it would be much easier.

Also remember that Heroes have slightly different codings. While you might have 3 Necro heroes, MoW makes a better MM than Olias because a small coding difference. These differences can prove the worth of heroes if applied correctly.

Sure it can take a lot of effort to find a right build that works perfectly, doesn't take that much effort to tweak them a bit to get them working decently. When the NPCs do something wrong, usually you have done something wrong, even if it's just cycling through your enemies with Tab.

OlMurraniKasale · Sep 06, 2007, 04:52 PM // 16:52

I've discovered a very strange set of instances with the AI for heroes and henchies. I tested it, and amazingly enough I am, well, amazed. First off though, yes please ANet when I call a target, those little toons better run off to do battle and not just stand there until someone gets attacked or I do damage to the mob. grrr.

So, onto the strange discovery. It used to be in previous campaigns that whenever I'd get at -30 or so DP, I'd rage quit mostly and try it another time. I hate being that low in DP. Its true. I admit it. I think I missed the boat by being a rage quitter! Let me continue.

In GWEN, I have often been at a very high DP (-50 mostly), and I don't want to map out because I was in the middle of the blasted dungeonl I certainly could NOT/did NOT want to start over. So I kept chugging, and usually kept dying. Too poor for consumables, so, there I am.

As an example, I took Gwen's Master quest to stop another Searing by undertaking a mission to the great burning forest. The whole party of heroes/henchies and I were wiped/burned to a crisp on several occasions. We were down to -49 to -60 DP, and had maybe 200 hp between us.

Prior to the burning forest with full health and bars, the AI was generally its slow, only sometimes useful-doing-some-stupid-things nature. As soon as we hit the bottom of the DP barrel though, boom! The heroes and henchies were slaughtering things right and left. I couldn't stop them from finally doing their best to beat the living snot out of the Charr, the Charr Effigy, the Burning Spirits and Flowstones (which conveniently fell into aggro range all at once). The energy bars were low, the health bars tended to be way too low, but they were what I am now referring to as the Perfect Storm AI.

I'm thinking that there's levels of AI we may not be aware of, or at least by some odd coincidence the heroes/henchies get "smart" by pure coding adrenaline. Either ANet has a different set of AI code for a high DP, or I'm a lunatic.

I can't explain how suddenly a party of 8 heroes/henchies who couldn't take on 2 Grawl without doing something stupid were suddenly a Perfect Storm to counter the 15 aggro beasties in a burning forest. In the middle of all that fire, we were ALL on fire the entire time, stuck or sandwiched between Burning Spirits and Charr, and yet they died and we did not die once during that last battle.

It was quite epic to be in that burning forest battling for our lives, monsters bent on our destruction and my war band mowing them all down. So, ANet, please fix the part where the AI will not attack when I tell them too, but please keep up the good work with the levels of AI (or spiritual coding) that makes heroes smarter as they suffer more.

lunksunkunk · Sep 06, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

PRIME EXAMPLE:

Facing those damn condition spamming mandragors, mhenlo will not use LoD until our whole entire team is at around 5% health, hell then proceed to use it only ONCE, then let the team die. Lina doesnt do shit either all i see is hex removal on condition heavy encounters, come on, at least equate one kind of spell to each different purpose.

Seems like mhenlo is too busy talking about "whats for lunch?" w/ lina while my whole entire team is deep freezed, mind freezed, maelstrom away, and they just sit in maelstrom casting.......

Unidimention · Sep 06, 2007, 07:58 PM // 19:58

/signed
agree, have nothing to say since everyone has said my words.

Cherng Butter · Sep 06, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

/signed

I flagged my hero's back, gathered PERFECT agroo of a bunch of destroyers, canceled flag, they never came back and I died ><

And seriously, they SPAM Blessed Light like there's no tomorrow...

reetkever · Sep 06, 2007, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaladrielMoloch

Not-signed.

No notice in change if any of the NPC AI, only AI that has changed is monster AI. The NPC AI doesn't think like us, you actually have to control it and the first step of that is the build.

Heroes do not use Elites as much as they should etc, you need to tailor for this in your builds. A very difficult and timed build doesn't work on heroes for a reason. The game has been designed so you are able to complete it with hero/hench, but if you got all human players or mostly human players, it would be much easier.

Also remember that Heroes have slightly different codings. While you might have 3 Necro heroes, MoW makes a better MM than Olias because a small coding difference. These differences can prove the worth of heroes if applied correctly.

Sure it can take a lot of effort to find a right build that works perfectly, doesn't take that much effort to tweak them a bit to get them working decently. When the NPCs do something wrong, usually you have done something wrong, even if it's just cycling through your enemies with Tab.

It doesn't have to do with builds.

The heroes seem to be really stubborn lately:

-flatout ignoring your commands
-suddenly stop following you, and won't move, even when flagged
-just rushing in an enemy group, even when on 'Defensive', 'Avoid Combat' and when flagged.
-stop casting spells, so they still lose the energy cost. (I saw Zhed burn up 80 energy in a matter of seconds, cause he did Meteor Shower, canceled, Searing Flames, canceled, Meteor Shower etc.)

So... /sign

I had problems with my heroes rather often lately, it's like they're stubborn and deaf. Mutiny, I tell ye!

baaba · Sep 06, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

What I do is I disable 2-3 skills on their skill bars so they will be focus on their 3-4 skills that they can use. That works great.

Monsters AI are smarter than before.

Patrick Stealthwind · Sep 06, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

/signed, stupid ogden is making dunkoro look like buddha!

Moloch Vein · Sep 06, 2007, 08:53 PM // 20:53

/Signed.

At times I can't even make my heroes move without flagging them.

And don't even get me started at Gwen... I give her a wand, an interrupt setup and set her on defend, and the first thing she does in battle is RUSH INTO MELEE RANGE, about 1.5 aggro circles from the rest of the party.

Halwin · Sep 06, 2007, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr_3_aK

/NOT SIGNED

I easily beat EOTN with only heros/hench. I didnt even change their builds or which henchmen i took until the last mission. The only mission i failed was the last mission. All i did was sub in/out a few and i beat it 2nd attempt.

Their AI and skill bars have improved over other games. As a long term player (4500+ hours) who only plays with heros/hench i can tell you:

Heros/ Hench are only as stupid as the people controlling them

I do however have a few gripes about not using skills. Namely 'Order of Undeath' on a MM necro and a few others.

Ok, the hero/hench AI has indeed gone down hill as even with pings and changing the aggressive/defence/passive stances. I have had times where Tahlkora will not even heal, she will stand there and I have to open her bar and force her to heal people myself. But what gets me is your comment insulting everyone who has signed this, or have not even read this but are having this problem. There are what? 4 million world wide, if say 50 of us here are having issues imagine how many more are "stupid" as you say. Just because yours works does not mean everyone else is stupid. The game is fun and good, but glitchy. The only reason I see them taking out hero AI is the fact that it is no longer "pass" or "fail" 99% of the time, it's you die, you rez, the NPC your with will rez and you try again with -60% DP. Thats instead of the message "You fail" like the GOLEM mission. Those who do not want to sign, well thats your choice how ever I do realize that online petitions really do not get anywhere, unlike actual paper signed ones that you will submit to your congressman/lady or member of parliament. Please do not insult everyone just because they have an in game issue and you do not. Maybe in the future you will sign it, if your lucky you will not have issues in game like the rest of us semi-satisfied customers.

Also, I /sign this as Gaile does infact have an account.

Omega X · Sep 06, 2007, 09:18 PM // 21:18

/Signed

I noticed the change after the Prerelease Weekend. An update within that timeframe could have messed with the AI.

Vamis Threen · Sep 06, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Still works fine for me. All my heroes have very simple builds. I haven't noticed anything's changed. I started using LOD on monk heroes but they are fairly incompetent with it so i stopped. Some elites H/H just can't use very well. This could be changed but otherwise......

chambrya · Sep 06, 2007, 09:28 PM // 21:28

/signed

All my tank hench were chasing after 1 enemy so me and the healers got killed. While i waited for Koss to res me (he didn't even when told to) I watched vekk stand off to the side and not cast anything even though he had 80 energy.

Also I agree with who ever brought up the golemancer quest. Even if they were working right, the part where you follow the worker golem is near impossible with henchs.

Mineria · Sep 06, 2007, 10:03 PM // 22:03

/Not signed
They seem to work like they always did, just try to use them in the campaigns.
No clue why they wont work for you guys, they work as good for me as they always did.

The part of the Golemancer quest where you need to follow that warding golem is no big deal, just think a bit and you find the way to do it

genofreek · Sep 06, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Okay.

Normally I can pin my heroes back, and they'll move around a little or even make a little rush toward nearby groups (hi, Talon, looking directly at you), but they always turn right around and sit by the flag.

Koss cost me a primary quest last night by ignoring my flag and running halfway across the compass to aggro a group of dinosaurs. Twice.

While I've had similar problems when mobs skated a bit too close to the hero/hench bubbles, I could dismiss that as cutting it too close and expecting too much from AI. But it's getting to the point where they ignore the flag and Leeroy things on the other side of the red engine-ing map. This isn't gonna fly.

Mineria · Sep 06, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Koss cost me a primary quest last night by ignoring my flag and running halfway across the compass to aggro a group of dinosaurs. Twice.

And you made sure to have no obstacles between the hero and the flag?

Quote:

While I've had similar problems when mobs skated a bit too close to the hero/hench bubbles, I could dismiss that as cutting it too close and expecting too much from AI. But it's getting to the point where they ignore the flag and Leeroy things on the other side of the red engine-ing map. This isn't gonna fly.

If they are set on attack or defend mode they will attack if something gets into the bubble or do so when a monster attacks, henches are permanent on attack.
I did not once having any troubles with the flag system.
Even in the Ooze pit, where I single flag them, it works flawless.